Orly Lobel believes technology can make the world a better place—and she knows in 2022, that makes her a bit of a contrarian.
Lobel, a law professor specializing in labor and employment at the University of San Diego in California, has studied how technology and the gig economy affects workers. That has made her familiar with the potential disruptions caused by tools like automated résumé screening and apps that use algorithms to assign work to people. Yet Lobel feels discussion about automation and AI is too stuck on the harms these systems create.
In her book The Equality Machine: Harnessing Digital Technology for a Brighter, More Inclusive Future, Lobel encourages a sunnier view. She surveys the ways AI has pervaded many of the most important and personal aspects of our lives, with job seekers increasingly placing their fate in the judgments of automated systems and home health care devices sweeping up reams of intimate data. If deployed with care, Lobel argues, such tools can create more diverse applicant pools or more effective health care. She spoke to WIRED about seeing AI as a potential force for good. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Jennifer Conrad: You characterize this book as contrarian. What’s wrong with the recent attention to the idea that AI can be harmful?
Orly Lobel: For the past decade, I’ve seen too much of a binary discussion. People on the inside of the tech industry are not really interested in equality, distributive justice, and fairness—they’re just celebrating technology for the sake of technology. Then there are people asking, “Who are the winners and losers, and how do we protect different rights?” I wanted to bridge the two conversations.
We need to celebrate opportunities and successes, not just have tunnel vision on the problems. And people who are interested in having these conversations are getting more discouraged. A lot of people, particularly women and minorities, are opting out of working for Big Tech. It’s a vicious circle, where we’re getting fewer of those diverse voices on the inside, and the people who are critiquing or being agnostic have less skin in the game.
People often assume algorithms give precise or perfect answers. Is there a danger that no one will question automated hiring calls, or accusations of harassment?